I think perhaps I was misunderstood in my post about baptism. I believe that baptism should be a full immersion , as it was for Jesus when He was baptized, and it also is a symbolic joining of the Death, Burial , and Resurrection of Christ.
When I said it was a heart matter, I was describing my brother in law. He is physically incapable of being immersed in water, he is large and paralyzed over half his body. In his case, I 100% believe that God knows BIL heart, and knows that if he could, he would have been immersed, but he was baptized just the same as the people who were immersed this past weekend.
I hope and pray to never argue about our faith, because as individuals we all make certain decisions based on the free will we were given. I hope that at its core, we all love the Lord, and that is the common string we carry.
Being baptized does not get you to heaven, a heart that turns to the Lord, and repents of his sins will be saved!
I hope you all have a blessed day!
Peace and Blessings
LTW
ltw - i agree with you 100%!!! Our Lord knows and understands that there are many reasons why someone could not do a full body immersion as well as understanding that because of this, for some people it will have to be a heart matter. that is the beauty of Our Lord. as you know, my Uncle, The Last Robin, was very into the details of everything in the Bible - there is no one on the planet who could discuss the word "the" in the Bible and all of it's different variations. he was a stickler for details and believed in following Bible practices exactly how they were set out in the Bible. but he was also very understanding, and believed that there were exceptions to all rules and practices in the Bible. he would agree that for your BIL, being baptized was a heart matter between your BIL and Our Lord.
ReplyDeleteyou should not have to do a correction post as any person with half a heart totally understood your last post!
your friend,
kymber
The book of Acts is called the book of conversions. As I mentioned yesterday, every case of salvation involved immersion in water commonly called baptism.
ReplyDeleteEvery. Single. One.
Now allow me to ask this question? Why bother with baptism if you believe it isn't necessary to begin with. At this point you have turned it into a symbolic act. But as I mentioned above with 3 specific cases that Baptism is REQUIRED for salvation. and only if baptism happened would salvation ( the washing away of sins) occur.
Why would Jesus require Baptism of some and not others? That's a very important question you need to answer for yourself. How do you reconcile these two very different positions? It really is important that you be able to support your stance with scripture.
I'll bring Kymber's comment into this now. And before I start, I've looked at her blog and she seems to be a very sweet person much like you are. So once again, as I mentioned yesterday, there is no malice in my heart to either of you, I only want to share the scriptural need for immersion here as it relates to salvation.
Kymber said that "Our Lord knows and understands". That's saying that he makes exceptions for certain people. I'd once again have to disagree with that and ask Kymber to provide scripture for her statement as I have provided scripture for ALL of mine.
Let's look at what the Apostle Peter had to say about making exceptions for various individuals. It's truly an important concept that many have hard time understanding.
Act 16:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
What? God won't respect my belief that goes against his commandments? He won't grant me an exception that gets me off the hook regarding baptism or any other thing he requires? Sadly no. He will not. God is no respecter of persons.
If he did he would be showing favoritism wouldn't he? The NIV states the same scripture this way:
Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
The NKJV says it this way: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
Digest that. No respecter of persons, no favoritism, and no partiality. Kymber, as well meaning as she is, is simply not correct in her statement.
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
DeleteEphesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
and this one, right from Jesus
John 6:37-40
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day," (John 6:37-40).
My salvation was secured the minute I put my faith and trust in Him alone as my savior, and repented of my sins.
I love all my Christian brothers and sisters, but on this we must disagree. Would our Good and Gracious God ask my BIL to drown to be baptized? Will he not gain heaven?? No, God promised that BIL will be in heaven, even if he could not be baptized.
What about the thief on the cross, he was assured by Christ that he would be in heaven, but he was not baptized?
I will leave with this wonderful article found on the CARM.org web site
(which is an amazing apologetic web site)
by Matt Slick
This question is for those who believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. Let's say there is a person who has recognized his sin, acknowledges that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, that he died on the cross, that he physically rose from the dead, and that he has repentend of his sins. This same person prays to the Lord Jesus--as Jesus instructed (John 14:14), and asks Jesus, by faith, to forgive him of his sins (Matt. 28:18; Luke 5:20). If he does this, are his sins forgiven?
If you say that his sins are forgiven, then baptism is not necessary for salvation because he would be forgiven without baptism by faith in Christ.
However, if you say that his sins are not forgiven because he is not yet been baptized, then you are saying that Jesus would not forgive the sins of the person when the person prays to him and asks. It would mean that a faithful trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins is not enough to save anyone. It would mean that those who have prayed to Christ and asked him for forgiveness are still in a state of damnation because they have not yet been baptized. It would mean that Jesus alone is not able to save because salvation would require a combination of faith in God and man's participation in the baptismal ceremony. This means that salvation from God is restricted and cannot be accomplished until the ceremony is performed.
A ceremony is a religious rite, a series of practices done in a short period of time for religious purposes. A wedding is a ceremony. Communion is a ceremony. Baptism is a ceremony. Therefore, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then the forgiveness of sins is accomplished by faith in Christ and a ceremony.
This is a false gospel since it denies justification by faith alone in Christ alone (Rom. 3:28; 4:1-5; 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9).
I know that both of us could probably quote scripture back and forth for each other, but perhaps on this subject we could agree to disagree.
All scripture is God breathed, it is us in our failings as humans that tend to interpret it in different ways.
Have a great day, and thank you for commenting!
whoa! double whoa! ltw - THAT'S what i call a comeback!
Deletei was going to go searching through all of my Bibles and do some google searches but it looks like you have hit the stars with this comeback! good job, gurl!
anonymous - go away! go re-read your Bible! you still have so much to learn! and i wish you well in your journey!
I wondered Annon if we could address some of the scripture I posted. I know you wanted scripture references. Not for the sake of argument, but I wondered what your thoughts are on the subject of salvation by Grace.
DeleteThanks again for your thoughts!
To you, ltw, You've already suggested that we agree to disagree as you've mentioned that we could go back and forth from now on with scripture. Let's leave it there .
DeleteYou also allowed Kymber to jump in with some of her brand of nastiness. I've got better things to do than to put up with her.
She chooses to attack me because I post anonymously, as though I'm less of a person because I dont have a handle like you, long time wife. I guess if I'd used "married and loving it" my comments would have somehow meant more like yours? Its about the message, not the messenger.
And to you, Kymber, since you are more interested in comebacks than scripture, the only thing I can offer is that I don't have time for people like you. You have a reputation online already and you behaviour here only confirms, unfortunately, the things said by the atheist down in Florida. Your antics are a reproach to those that call themselves Christian.
The Bible warns against people like you.
Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of the evil workers.
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.
You fooled a lot of people, but you don't fool me.
Anon - thank goodness that my uncle, The Last Robin, had warned me of people like you. under the guise of "anonymous" and trying to hurt and abuse others, NOT teach, you are NOT doing the work of The Lord, though you think that you are. you are like those that my uncle warned me of - those who will take individual statements out of the Bible to prove your point for only one reason - to hurt others and to demonstrate your superiority. maybe, since you seem to have so much time on your hands and an interest in the Bible, you would spend some of that time reading my uncle's website - The Last Robin found here: http://thelastrobin.blogspot.ca/
ReplyDeletehe had absolutely no time for people who tried to hammer their own interpretations of what "the rules" are and he spent most of his life trying to teach others and never with a malicious bone in his body! you should read his blog in it's entirety and hopefully learn something in the process!
in addition - how about you read the closing chapter of Revelation as well.
and please - go and bother someone else with your superiority! and do not discuss me, nor my motives or intentions ever again. and leave longtimewife and her BIL alone. if your intent is to do good - you are failing miserably. and you should spend your spare time on yourself - not making others feel bad!
i wonder what Jesus would think of your last 2 comments here??? go away you mean-spirited person.
ltw - i am sorry for all of this but this anonymous person is simply filled with vitriol, a sense of superiority and is not at all like Jesus would want them to be. the mere fact that they have now included me in their silly attack only shows how shallow they are.
oh and btw anonymous - i can type certain ideas into google and get back specific quotes from various bible references as easily as you can. again - go read revelation. you might get some serious surprises. and prove your worth - go read The Last Robin's entire blog. that will teach you what it means to be a true teacher.
much love ltw! your friend,
kymber
Thank you sweet Kymber...
DeleteI adored your uncles blog, he was a wonderful teacher of scripture. I hope that annon will come back and read my reply, I do not want there to be annomosity towards anyone, but I know that my salvation and that of everyone I know, I know our salvation is secure, I know there are verses that will "prove" one thing or another.
But I know that my BIL will be in heaven, he will be running on perfect legs, and will be reunited with those that went before!
Hugs to you K
ltw - my Uncle was a real stickler for details - trust me on that! but i read your reply to anonymous and my Uncle would have completely agreed! my jam had sessions with my Uncle and told my Uncle "but i haven't been baptized". and my Uncle said to my man "do you accept that Our Lord Jesus willingly died on the Cross for all of our sins and arose and washed away all of our sins?' and jamie said "yes. i believe". and my Uncle said "anyone who believes this is already saved".
Deleteno truer words have ever been spoken.
rituals definitely have their place. but Jesus, according to the New Testament writers was big on breaking rules and rituals.
much love ltw! your friend,
kymber